Is SEO Dead?
Season: 2 | Episode: 7
Published: March 3, 2025
By: Byer Co
A podcast episode from Byer CoServices argues that SEO remains vital in 2024, despite evolving challenges. While acknowledging increased competition from paid ads and AI, the post emphasizes the enduring importance of high-quality, user-centric content and adapting SEO strategies to incorporate new tools and technologies like AI. The author highlights the continued value of organic traffic for long-term growth and suggests specific tactics for success, such as focusing on topic clusters and improving core web vitals. The post concludes that SEO is a constantly evolving field requiring continuous learning and adaptation, but remains a critical component of a successful digital marketing strategy. Finally, the site includes a detailed explanation of its cookie usage policy.
Link: Is SEO Dead?
Keywords: Marketing,seo,Content Marketing,web design
Episode Transcript
00:00:00 - 00:00:05
Welcome back to the all new digital rage. I am Jeff the producer here at Byer Company.
00:00:05 - 00:00:10
We have another great article from our senior marketing strategist Mira Mikati about SEO.
00:00:10 - 00:00:17
Every so often the question comes up is SEO dead? Mira's article leads us into this deep dive. So here we go.
00:00:17 - 00:00:25
All right, so today we're going to kind of deep dive into the world of SEO in 2024.
00:00:25 - 00:00:30
All right. And you know everybody's always asking is SEO dead? Yeah.
00:00:30 - 00:00:38
So we have this article is SEO dead in today's marketing world. Spoiler it's alive and kicking.
00:00:38 - 00:00:44
So that's good. We'll see what's up. Yeah, the whole idea that SEO is dead. Yeah.
00:00:44 - 00:00:51
It's really interesting. It seems to come up every few years. Yeah. But it's way more complex than that.
00:00:51 - 00:00:56
Yeah. And this article is saying that it's not dead. It's evolved. Okay.
00:00:56 - 00:01:00
And it's no longer about just like keyword stuffing. I remember back in the day. Yeah.
00:01:00 - 00:01:05
You could just like repeat the same keyword over and over again. Oh yeah. And it would like rank highly.
00:01:05 - 00:01:08
Yeah. I mean, thankfully those days are gone. Yeah.
00:01:08 - 00:01:11
Search engines and like Google, especially have gotten so much smarter. Right.
00:01:11 - 00:01:16
It's all about creating content that really provides value to users.
00:01:16 - 00:01:24
Makes sense. You know, like when you do a search, you want an answer. You don't want a page that's just stuffed with irrelevant keywords.
00:01:24 - 00:01:29
Right. You want something that's actually useful. Exactly. So it's not about like tricking the system anymore.
00:01:29 - 00:01:33
Right. It's about genuinely helping people find what they need.
00:01:33 - 00:01:39
Exactly. Google is constantly updating their algorithms to make sure that happens. Right.
00:01:39 - 00:01:42
You've probably heard of Bert. Yeah. And core web vitals.
00:01:42 - 00:01:51
These updates are all about rewarding websites that are user friendly fast and have, you know, really good relevant content.
00:01:51 - 00:01:58
So no more shortcuts. Right. But the article also talks about how it's gotten harder.
00:01:58 - 00:02:04
Okay. Even though it's not dead. Yeah. One of the biggest challenges is just like the amount of competition. Right.
00:02:04 - 00:02:09
You know, when you do a search, what do you see? The first page is just covered in ads. Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:09 - 00:02:14
It makes it really hard for websites to stand out organically without paying.
00:02:14 - 00:02:18
I feel that sometimes you have to scroll forever to get past the ads.
00:02:18 - 00:02:21
Do it. It's fun. It's even see the results.
00:02:21 - 00:02:25
Results. Yeah. And then you have this like rise of AI. Yes.
00:02:25 - 00:02:30
And you know, like chat GPT and voice search. Voice search changing everything.
00:02:30 - 00:02:36
Yeah. So how do you optimize for for something when people might not even see the results paid?
00:02:36 - 00:02:42
Right. You're not even going to a website anymore. Right. You're just getting your answer right there from the AI from the AI.
00:02:42 - 00:02:47
Yeah. And then I also mentioned that Google is always changing their algorithms.
00:02:47 - 00:02:53
So Google's always refining things. You can't keep up. Yeah. It's hard to maintain your traffic.
00:02:53 - 00:02:59
It's tough. Right. Yeah. It's a lot of work. Okay. So even though there are all these challenges. Yeah.
00:02:59 - 00:03:05
Why is SEO still valuable? Well, this article says organic traffic is the gold standard.
00:03:05 - 00:03:12
Okay. For long term growth. Because people are actively searching for something related to your business.
00:03:12 - 00:03:16
They're already interested. It's not like they just stumbled upon it. Yeah.
00:03:16 - 00:03:20
They're actually looking for it. Right. And then you have local businesses too.
00:03:20 - 00:03:23
Yeah. Mentions that you know, you own a bakery. Yeah.
00:03:23 - 00:03:27
You want to make sure people in your neighborhood can find you on Google maps. Yeah.
00:03:27 - 00:03:32
Local SEO is essential. If you have a physical business. Right. And also it's free. Yeah.
00:03:32 - 00:03:38
You don't have to pay per click. Exactly. No cost per click. So even though things are changing. Yeah.
00:03:38 - 00:03:43
A lot of the core principles. Yeah. Still apply. They do. Like the article was saying. Yeah.
00:03:43 - 00:03:50
User-centric content. Still ranks well. For sure. And it's key for reaching those niche audiences.
00:03:50 - 00:03:56
Absolutely. And you know, yeah. The article offers some SEO hacks for 2024. Okay.
00:03:56 - 00:04:01
And it's all about quality over quantity. Okay. So like it said, create helpful content.
00:04:01 - 00:04:08
Yeah. Optimize your site speed. Make sure your site looks good on mobile devices.
00:04:08 - 00:04:13
All the important stuff. Right. And thinking topics. Yeah. Not just keywords.
00:04:13 - 00:04:18
So what does that mean? Yeah. What does that mean? Well, instead of focusing on just individual keywords.
00:04:18 - 00:04:21
Yeah. You think about like a broader topic cluster. Okay.
00:04:21 - 00:04:26
So like if you're that bakery owner. Mm-hmm. Instead of just targeting cupcakes.
00:04:26 - 00:04:35
You create content around like cupcake recipes. Mm-hmm. Cupcake decorating. Yeah. Cupcake baking tips. Okay.
00:04:35 - 00:04:39
So you're like you become the ultimate cupcake expert. Cupcake expert. Yeah.
00:04:39 - 00:04:44
So you're providing more value. Right. More comprehensive information. Yeah.
00:04:44 - 00:04:50
To your audience. And that's going to make you rank higher. And signaling to Google that you are a cupcake authority.
00:04:50 - 00:04:54
Right. Which will boost your ranking. Okay. So it's a win-win. Right.
00:04:54 - 00:04:59
You're creating content people actually want. Yeah. And you're helping your SEO.
00:04:59 - 00:05:04
And you're helping your SEO at the same time. Right. And then to reach as many people as possible. Yeah.
00:05:04 - 00:05:10
It also says diversify your content. Like you can have like short form videos. Mm-hmm. Interactive tools. Yeah.
00:05:10 - 00:05:15
A podcast even. Podcasts are great for reaching cupcake enthusiasts. Right.
00:05:15 - 00:05:18
Who like to listen. It's like you're providing a variety of content. Right. Yeah.
00:05:18 - 00:05:24
A content will a little something for everyone. Yeah. A content buffet. Okay. And then speaking of the future. Yeah.
00:05:24 - 00:05:29
This article predicts even more AI. Mm-hmm. More personalization.
00:05:29 - 00:05:34
A greater emphasis on user experience. Yeah. Absolutely. That's a lot. It is a lot.
00:05:34 - 00:05:39
So what does all that mean? Well, AI tools like chat, J.P.T. and Bard. Okay.
00:05:39 - 00:05:43
Are really starting to shake things up in the SEO world. Right.
00:05:43 - 00:05:50
They analyze massive amounts of data to help marketers understand what people are actually searching for.
00:05:50 - 00:06:04
So you can really optimize that content. Okay. And then it says that businesses that are using AI-powered chatbots for customer support or personalized product recommendations. Right.
00:06:04 - 00:06:09
Could actually see their rankings improved. Exactly. Because if you land on a website. Yeah.
00:06:09 - 00:06:16
And you get instant help or you see products that you actually want. That's a positive experience. Who would like to see that?
00:06:16 - 00:06:26
So AI is changing the game. It is changing the game. So where do we go from here? What does it all mean? Yeah. What does it mean for somebody who wants to succeed with SEO?
00:06:26 - 00:06:32
The biggest thing is you have to be adaptable. Okay. Because the digital landscapes is constantly changing. Yeah.
00:06:32 - 00:06:39
So what works today might not work tomorrow. Right. So be ready to learn, experiment and evolve. Okay.
00:06:39 - 00:06:50
It's a wild ride. Yeah. But it's rewarding. But it's super rewarding. Right. Because it's such a powerful tool for reaching your audience, building your brand and growing your business.
00:06:50 - 00:06:59
So we've established that SEO is alive and kicking. It's alive. But it's not the same game. Not the same.
00:06:59 - 00:07:07
So what's the biggest piece of advice you would give somebody who's starting out with SEO in 2024?
00:07:07 - 00:07:17
The most important thing is just to be willing to learn. Okay. Because this landscape is changing so fast. You have to be curious. You have to experiment. You have to try new things. Right.
00:07:17 - 00:07:25
And don't be afraid to evolve your approach. Okay. So like be ready to like jump in. Be ready to jump in. Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:25 - 00:07:36
Yeah. And an SEO is an incredible tool. It's a powerful tool for reaching your audience, building your brand and ultimately growing your business.
00:07:36 - 00:07:41
I think we covered a lot of ground here. I think so too. This first part of our SEO deep dive.
00:07:41 - 00:07:49
Fairfully. We talked about the evolution of SEO. The challenges, the opportunities. Yeah. And how AI is changing the game.
00:07:49 - 00:07:54
Yeah. And we're just getting started. But for now, we're going to leave you with this thought. Okay.
00:07:54 - 00:08:01
We've seen how SEO is becoming more sophisticated. Yeah. And more intertwined with user experience. Right.
00:08:01 - 00:08:05
So how can you make your website? Yeah. Really enjoyable. Yeah.
00:08:05 - 00:08:13
Valuable destination. Yeah. For your target audience. For the people you want to reach. What kind of content will resonate with them?
00:08:13 - 00:08:17
That's a great question. What kind of experience will keep them coming back for more?
00:08:17 - 00:08:22
Those are all good things to think about. Yeah. Because when you focus on creating a website, people love.
00:08:22 - 00:08:29
You're well on your way to SEO success. Okay. So we'll be back soon to continue our deep dive. Right.
00:08:29 - 00:08:36
Into the fascinating world of SEO. Looking forward to it. Stay tuned. See them. So welcome back.
00:08:36 - 00:08:44
All right. So I feel like we kind of laid a good foundation. We did. But now I'm ready to get into like. Okay.
00:08:44 - 00:08:48
The nitty-gritty. All right. Well, let's start with user experience. Okay.
00:08:48 - 00:08:54
You know, we talked about how Google really prioritizes websites that are easy to use. Yeah.
00:08:54 - 00:09:00
Easy to navigate. It just makes sense. Right. Like why would they send people to a website that's like clunky or slow?
00:09:00 - 00:09:05
Especially on your phone. Yeah, especially on mobile. If it takes forever to load. Right.
00:09:05 - 00:09:13
Or the text is too small. Yeah. I'm out of there. You're gone. Yeah. So optimizing your site for user experience is so crucial.
00:09:13 - 00:09:20
Okay. So user experience is like the foundation. It is the foundation. What comes next? Content. Content. Content. Content.
00:09:20 - 00:09:25
But it's not just about having content. It is not just about having content. It's about having the right content.
00:09:25 - 00:09:30
Okay. Content that's really tailored to what people are searching for.
00:09:30 - 00:09:36
So I can't just write about whatever I want. You can't just write about whatever you want. I need to think about what people are actually looking for.
00:09:36 - 00:09:46
Think about what they're typing into Google. Yeah. That's called search intent. Search intent. So imagine you're searching for how to fix a leaky faucet. Okay.
00:09:46 - 00:09:57
Are you looking for like a step-by-step guide with pictures or a video tutorial? Right. Or maybe a list of plumbers near you? Yeah. Probably all three. Probably all three.
00:09:57 - 00:10:05
Depending on how I'm feeling. Depending on how DIY you want to be. Exactly. So you have to understand the intent behind the search. Okay.
00:10:05 - 00:10:15
That's where keyword research comes in. Okay. You want to figure out like what are the words and phrases people are using to find information related to your business. Okay.
00:10:15 - 00:10:24
And then you create content that answers their questions or solves their problems. So keyword research. Figure out what people are looking for.
00:10:24 - 00:10:31
Exactly. Create content that delivers. And remember topic clustering. Oh, yeah. Don't just focus on individual keywords.
00:10:31 - 00:10:41
Create content that covers like a whole range of related topics. Like with the cupcakes. Exactly. It's like I want to be the ultimate resource for cupcakes. The ultimate cupcake expert.
00:10:41 - 00:10:50
But how do I come up with all these ideas? Well, that's where AI tools can be helpful. Okay. Tools like chat GPT. Can generate topic ideas. Right.
00:10:50 - 00:11:00
Can create outlines for you. Okay. They can even write drafts for you. Okay. So AI is sounding a little less scary now. It can be a really powerful tool.
00:11:00 - 00:11:09
Okay. So now I've got all this content. Okay. How do I make sure Google actually sees it? Well, that's where on page optimization comes in. Yeah. It's all about structuring your content. Yeah.
00:11:09 - 00:11:17
In a way that search engines can easily understand and index it. Okay. Things like using relevant keywords in your headings. Okay.
00:11:17 - 00:11:28
Title tags, meta descriptions. Okay. Optimizing your images. Okay. With what's called alt text. And making sure your content is well organized. Okay. And easy to read.
00:11:28 - 00:11:48
So I'm basically speaking Google's language. You're speaking Google's language. Okay. And remember, diversify those content types. Right. Create videos, interactive tools, podcasts. It's like a buffet. It is a buffet. But content. A buffet of content for everybody. Okay. So I've got my user experience dialed in. Okay. Got my content.
00:11:48 - 00:12:02
On page optimization. Yeah. Diversifying my content types. Is there anything else? One more crucial piece. Okay. Link building. Link building. Think of links as votes of confidence from other websites. Okay.
00:12:02 - 00:12:13
When a reputable website links to yours. Yeah. It's basically telling Google. Right. Hey, this website is trustworthy. Okay. It's valuable. So how do I get these votes of confidence?
00:12:13 - 00:12:25
Well, you can't just email everybody and ask for a link. Okay. The best way to earn links is to create content that people actually want to link to. Okay. You know, high quality content.
00:12:25 - 00:12:38
Build relationships with other website owners and bloggers in your industry. Okay. Things like guest blogging, participating in forums, engaging on social media. So it's like relationship building.
00:12:38 - 00:12:51
It is all about relationship building. Becoming a respected voice in your industry. Okay. So it's not a quick fix. No, it's not a quick fix. It takes time and effort. But it's essential. It's essential. Okay. So we've got user experience. Yeah.
00:12:51 - 00:13:00
Content on page. Optimize link building. Link building. I feel like I'm starting to understand SEO. And you know what's not enough. What?
00:13:00 - 00:13:10
To just implement these things and then just like sit back. Yeah. And wait for the magic to happen. Right. You got to. You have to track your progress. You have to measure your success. How do I do that?
00:13:10 - 00:13:20
Well, there are a lot of tools available to track your SEO performance. A lot of them are free. Okay. Google Analytics is a great place to start. Okay.
00:13:20 - 00:13:30
You can see how much traffic you're getting. Okay. Where it's coming from. What people are doing on your website. So I can actually see what keywords are bringing people to my site.
00:13:30 - 00:13:48
You can see what keywords are bringing people to your site. Okay. And what pages are the most popular? And what pages are most popular? That's so cool. It's really cool. It's like. It's valuable information. Yeah. For refining your SEO strategy. You can see what's working. Exactly. What's not? See what's working. What's not.
00:13:48 - 00:13:56
And you can make adjustments. Make adjustments as you need to. It's like a symphony. It is like a symphony. All these different parts. Yeah.
00:13:56 - 00:14:08
Working together. Oh, working together. User experience content. Yeah. On page optimization. On page optimization. Link building. Link building. Tracking. It's a lot. It is a lot.
00:14:08 - 00:14:24
But sometimes I worry about like losing the personal touch. Yeah. You know, like that connection with my audience. A human connection. Yeah. And that brings us back to authenticity. Yes. SEO is about optimizing your content. Yeah. For search engines. Yeah.
00:14:24 - 00:14:35
But it's also about connecting with real people. Right. Don't be afraid to let your personality shine through in your writing. Okay. Share your unique perspective. Right.
00:14:35 - 00:14:48
Tell stories that resonate. So it's okay to be myself. It is more than okay. It's essential. While speaking Google's language. Exactly. Because people are drawn to authenticity.
00:14:48 - 00:15:00
They want to connect with real people. Okay. They don't want to connect with faceless brands. Oh, that makes sense. Or robotic content generators. Right. Because it's the human connection. It is the human connection. That makes people come back.
00:15:00 - 00:15:13
Exactly. That drives engagement. Yeah. That builds loyalty. And that turns visitors into customers. Okay. So we've talked a lot about the technical aspects. We have talked a lot about the technical stuff.
00:15:13 - 00:15:20
But what's the bigger picture? The bigger picture is visibility. Okay. It's making sure your business is found.
00:15:20 - 00:15:34
By the people who are looking for what you have to offer. Okay. It's about connecting with your audience, building relationships, establishing your brand as a trusted authority in your industry. And with AI. Yeah.
00:15:34 - 00:15:43
It feels like it's only going to get more complex. It is going to get more complex. More competitive. It's going to get more competitive. Right. But it's also super exciting. How do we keep up?
00:15:43 - 00:15:54
The key is to be a lifelong learner. Okay. You know, stay curious, experiment with new tools, try new techniques, and never stop exploring. Okay. So like stay curious.
00:15:54 - 00:16:06
Stay curious. Keep learning. Keep learning. Embrace the change. Yeah. Because the SEO landscape is always changing. Okay. So stay curious. Keep learning. Embrace the ever changing world of SEO.
00:16:06 - 00:16:17
Exactly. And in the final part of our deep dive, we're going to explore how AI is shaping the future of SEO and what you can do to prepare.
00:16:17 - 00:16:28
Awesome. I can't wait to hear what the future holds. See you in the next part. All right. So we're back for the final part of our SEO deep dive. And we've talked about a lot.
00:16:28 - 00:16:38
We have, you know, we've talked about user experience, content creation, link building, tracking. We've even touched on AI. Yeah. And that's what I really want to dive into. Okay.
00:16:38 - 00:16:48
Because this whole AI thing is fascinating, but it's also kind of scary. It is a little intimidating. So what does the future of SEO even look like? Yeah. What does the future hold?
00:16:48 - 00:17:02
And an AI driven world? Well, this article that we've been talking about, it offers some pretty interesting insights. And it predicts that AI is going to play an even bigger role in SEO in the coming years. Okay.
00:17:02 - 00:17:12
Leading to a more personalized and intuitive search experience. Okay. And you mentioned that earlier. Can you give me an example? Sure. Of how AI might change the way we search?
00:17:12 - 00:17:20
Absolutely. So imagine you're planning a trip to Italy. Okay. And you search for like best restaurants in Rome.
00:17:20 - 00:17:29
Mm-hmm. Instead of just getting a list of links. Yeah. And AI powered search engine could take into account your past travel history.
00:17:29 - 00:17:35
Wow. Or dietary preferences. No way. Budget. Even like the time of year you're traveling. Okay.
00:17:35 - 00:17:45
To give you a list of recommendations that are specifically tailored to you. Wow. That would be so cool. Right. It'd be like having a personal travel agent built into the search engine.
00:17:45 - 00:17:53
Built right in. Okay. So it's not just about finding information. It's about finding like the right information for you. The right information. Yeah. Okay. That's relevant to you.
00:17:53 - 00:18:03
But isn't there a risk? Well, that we all end up in these like filter bubbles. That is a concern. Yeah. And it's something that developers are working on.
00:18:03 - 00:18:16
You know, because we want to personalize those results. But we also want to make sure that people are getting a variety of viewpoints. Right. So it's about personalization but also like a diversity of thought.
00:18:16 - 00:18:24
Exactly. It's a tough balance. Yeah. But it's one that I think we can figure out. Okay. So let's say this actually happens. Okay. This AI future. Yeah.
00:18:24 - 00:18:31
What does it mean for businesses? That's a question. Website owners. Right. How do we optimize?
00:18:31 - 00:18:39
How do we optimize for these super smart search engines? Well, a lot of the core principles of SEO are still going to be relevant. Okay.
00:18:39 - 00:18:51
You know, creating high quality content that's valuable, informative and engaging. Okay. That's always going to be important. But we're going to have to adapt. We will have to adapt. Right. Yeah. So in an AI driven world.
00:18:51 - 00:19:05
It's not enough. It's not just about keywords anymore. We need to think about intent. Okay. What are people really looking for? Right. And create content that really meets those needs. So it sounds like empathy.
00:19:05 - 00:19:16
Empathy is even more important. Empathy is huge in SEO. Right. SEO in the future is going to be less about like gaming the system. Yeah. And more about connecting with people. Right.
00:19:16 - 00:19:26
You know, understanding their motivations, their pain points, their aspirations and creating content that really speaks to those needs. Exactly. So how do we do that?
00:19:26 - 00:19:31
Well, how do we like get inside their minds? It's a combination of things. Okay.
00:19:31 - 00:19:42
Traditional keyword research is still important. Okay. But we need to go deeper than that. We need to understand the psychology of such, you know, analyze user behavior.
00:19:42 - 00:19:54
Up surveys, engage in social listening. Okay. And really try to understand why people are searching for the things they're searching for. So it's less about manipulating algorithms.
00:19:54 - 00:20:03
Less about manipulating and more about like understanding human behavior, understanding human behavior. Wow. And that's where AI can be super helpful. Okay.
00:20:03 - 00:20:11
AI can analyze all this data about user behavior. Yeah. And help us identify patterns. Okay. That we might not see on our own.
00:20:11 - 00:20:19
We're not replacing us. Right. It's making us better. It's enhancing our skills. It's giving us superpowers. So we need to focus on the quality content. Yeah.
00:20:19 - 00:20:29
Tailored to search intent. Yeah. Use AI as a tool to understand our audience. Mm-hmm. Prioritize user experience. User experience is key. Anything else.
00:20:29 - 00:20:38
One more thing. Okay. This article really stresses the importance of building a strong brand identity. Okay. Why is that? We'll think about it. Okay.
00:20:38 - 00:20:46
World where search is so personalized. Mm-hmm. How do you stand out? Yeah. How do you stand out? You need to have something unique. Mm-hmm.
00:20:46 - 00:20:55
That's where your brand comes in. Right. Your brand is your story. Okay. It's your values, your mission, your personality. It's what makes you memorable.
00:20:55 - 00:21:04
So even in an AI driven world, it's all about human connection. It's still about the humans. Authenticity. Yeah. Right.
00:21:04 - 00:21:09
At the end of the day, people buy from people. Mm-hmm. They connect with brands. They trust. Right.
00:21:09 - 00:21:15
Brands, they admire brands that share their values. So we have to stay true to ourselves. Be yourself. Tell our stories.
00:21:15 - 00:21:23
Mm-hmm. Build brands. Mm-hmm. People connect with. It's an exciting time to be an SEO. It is exciting. There are definitely challenges. Yeah.
00:21:23 - 00:21:33
But there are also a lot of opportunities. Right. If we embrace AI. Yeah. Adapt our strategies. Mm-hmm. And never lose sight of that human element. Okay.
00:21:33 - 00:21:41
We can create a future of search that's smarter, more relevant. Right. And ultimately more meaningful for everybody.
00:21:41 - 00:21:46
So we've explored the evolution of SEO. Yeah. The challenges and the opportunities. How we talk about strategies. AI.
00:21:46 - 00:21:57
AI is changing everything. User experience authenticity. Yep. It's all connected. Building a strong brand. It is. It's been a fascinating journey. It has been a fascinating journey. Hope you learn something. I hope so too.
00:21:57 - 00:22:10
Remember SEO is constantly changing. It is. So stay curious. Stay curious. Stay adaptable. Stay adaptable. Never stop learning. Never start learning. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me.
00:22:10 - 00:22:14
On this deep dive into SEO. It's been fun. We'll see you next time. See you next time.
00:22:14 - 00:22:23
Reach out to us at jbuyer.com for comments and questions. Follow us at buyer company on social media. And if you'd be so kind, please rate and review us in your podcast app.
00:22:23 - 00:22:23
cast out.
00:22:23 - 00:22:26
(upbeat music)